"TRADITIONAL"....

[Hardcase]

"TRADITIONAL"....
« on: March 17, 2004, 01:59:37 PM »

I always did like that "word"!!

But I'm always amazed when some folks try to "re-define" it's meaning.
And "where" do we draw that line!! For example,......

1. Jacketed bullets

2. Plastic sabots

3. Plastic speed-loaders

4. Plastic fiber-optic sights

5. Recoil pads

6. "Cut" flints

7. "Fast-twist" barrels

8. Tang-sights

9. Globe-sights

10. Aluminum rifle "hardware"

11. Fiberglass or synthetic ramrods

12. Plastic see-thru cappers

13. Modern "concoctions" of patch-lube

14. Modern "concoctions" of bore cleaners

15. Modern "concoctions" of fake blackpowder

and,..... etc.!!

Does the "use" of the above mentioned "modern things" honestly fit the description of "TRADITIONAL" in your opinions?

To me, the word "TRADITIONAL" means ONLY the "types" of powder and components AVAILABLE dur'n the "time in history" most closely associated with the rifle in my hands!!

I readily admit to given "hot shot" nipples a try. (nuthin gained when use'n REAL blackpowder!)

I also admit to use'n a "synthetic ramrod" at home fer "final" clean'n. (never when "use'n" the riflegun!)

And,.... I can understand "fake" blackpowder for those of you who claim that you can't git the "REAL" stuff. (however, I'm not aware of ANY place in the "lower 48" states,... that "real" blackpowder can't be sent by UPS!)

Shouldn't shoot'n TRADITIONAL muzzleloaders,.... (with TRADITIONAL "components" ONLY,...) be the "GOAL" that we as "traditional shooters" ought'a be strive'n for?

Or,..... is my understanding of the word "TRADITIONAL" wrong?

(OK!!.... I'm "braced",... now let me "have it" !!)

[oldman]

In my mind, when I had one, traditional is traditional. I shoot a spit patched, self molded round ball in front of blackpowder set off by either flint and steel or cap. Flint and steel is a flintlock for those that don,t understand what I am talking about. I'll admit that with my percussion I use a modern day capper but that is about it. I do have stainless range rods that I use with kids in 4H for safety reasons. I also mix patch lube and cleaner for them. As far as I am concerned none of the"Things" you mentioned have anything to do with traditional. I got to agree with you Traditional is Traditional. There ain't no "re-defining".

[gd3006]

Good question! And I suppose that there are several ways to approach it. First and foremost: at what point do we consider technology to be "traditional"? If you include all of the things incorporated in the 1800's, tang sights would fall into that category (blackpowder buffalo guns). Other than that, I pretty much agree on all the other points. Something that may be worth adding is that I used to work with a man who shot only smoothbore flintlock muzzleloaders. A bit extreme, but certainly traditional in every sense of the word. i guess i don't really know where the line is, but I think you're pretty close.

gd

[Schrader]

I completely agree with you guys. Nothing up there is "traditional". The one thing I've come to see, is that even guys that are "traditional" will still shoot Pyrodex RS. The reason-its alot cheaper and easier to acquire than real blackpowder. I also know that it contains several of the main ingredients used in real blackpowder, so its not too far off. If muzzleloading technology continues on its current course, I think you might see states going to 2 muzzleloading seasons-traditional and modern. How does a 260gr. saboted bullet going 2500fps out of an inline sound to you guys who hunt dear with 80grs. of FF out of a Hawken?

Schrader

PS-Grizzly Adams DID have a beard!

[gd3006]

OK... Just to stir the pot, here's a question. Would you consider the T/C scout to be a traditional-style muzzleloader, or an inline? I don't have any real leanings on this, and I'm curious to know where you all stand.

gd

[oldman]

I shoot now with some guys that only shoot smooth bores. The guys are good with them. About the Pyrodex, yes it easier to aquire but depending on where you live and how you buy it, powder is much cheaper to me. That inline sounds to me like it should only be used in modern seasons only. If you do a little research you will find out that there was a type of inline in the 1800's that was made much like the T/C scout. That is how the Marksbury inline was able to be used in some western states when they first would not let inlines be used in muzzleloader seasons. Things are really changing with muzzleloaders. Right now in Florida, rifles with electronic ignition and the use of modern smokeless powder are not allowed. I would love to see a traditional only season everywhere, but the problem I see is there are not enough CO's to go around to enforce it and we all know there are some out there that will not follow laws. We all most likely hear modern guns going off during muzzleloader seasons now. I know I do. Big difference in sound.

[dochunter]

I think anyone can shoot whatever they enjoy or prefer. I personally like to try everything from flintlocks to AR's. This past deer season, I killed a deer with a Kentucky style flintlock, .45 caliber, with pillow-ticking patched molded round ball over 60 gr. of fffG black powder with ffffG in the pan, patch was cut as the ball was seated in the muzzle with a handmade knife with antler handle, seated with a wooden starter and wooden ramrod with all accessories carried in a handmade leather possibles bag, all made by an older friend of mine who built the gun himself about 25 years ago and shot competitively for many years. The deer dropped dead where hit. As far as I am concerned, that was plenty "traditional" and a lot of fun. But I also enjoy many aspects of hunting with a large variety of other weapons, including bow, handgun (single action revolver, .44 Mag.), Ruger #1 single shot in 7x57, Remington 700 BDL .270 that has been glass bedded and had the trigger tuned and shoots consistent 1 in. groups at 100 yards with almost anything I feed it (mostly my own handloads for varmints to elk), Ruger Mini-30 7.62x39, Marlin 336 .30-30, and a Marlin .44 Mag. lever action, CVA Frontier Rifle, T/C White Mountain Carbine, and T/C Encore 209x50. Every one of those weapons has a special place in my own personal hunting history and associations throughout my life. Every one of them has been a joy to own and use in my hunting experiences and as far as I am concerned, no one has the right to try to put me down for using any of them whenever I choose during any legal season. (By the way, the flintlock kill occurred during our last MODERN gun season. That attracted a lot of strange looks from other hunters who saw what I had used.)

[oldman]

I would not put you down for using any of the GUNS that you mentioned. The only thing I would object to is the use of weapons. We as hunters use guns. As a Ky Hunter Ed instructor, US Army vet, I got my hands smacked more than once until they broke me from calling guns weapons. I too am out there during modern season with my .50 cal. plains rifle, fffg powder, patched round ball. My .45 cal. flint is for target shooting, and my .32 cal. flint is for squrrels, all built by me. I also enjoy shooting and hunting with other guns, from .22's to 45-70's. I just enjoy muzzleloaders more.